Anne Dorman — A Realtor With a Therapist's Edge on Where AI Helps and the Human Stays

Transcript

Anne: I love when I see a creative realtor do a pop-up of a really cool house on an empty lot. Like, show me what can be. Oh, interesting. So there's great ways to use AI in this way. Oh, that's... Yeah, yeah, I never thought about that. Even if you make your, your listing video more like a commercial, and that's not you walking through, but it's an AI-generated walkthrough.

Narrator: This is AI With Kai, practical AI for real business leaders. We break down what matters, talk with people using AI in real businesses, and share one idea you can use right away

Kai: It's another great day to talk about AI. I'm Kai Gray, your host, and I'm here with producer and audio engineer royalty, Tim Scott. How's it going, Tim?

Tim: It's great, Kai. It's going good.

Kai: That's your new title, by the way.

Tim: Thank you. The irony is, is we're recording this for the second time- ... because I forgot to hit the record button earlier.

Kai: You're, you're still royalty. It doesn't matter.

Tim: It happens to the greatest.

Kai: Okay. So we were talking about things that AI has said to you, and you told an extremely funny story. So why don't you tell that story again?

Tim: All right. Maybe it'll be funnier the second time around. Sometimes when I'm driving in the car, I'll record my thoughts into ChatGPT and then play the response back through the car stereo. And, uh, you know, it was like, it's kind of a serious subject and, uh, you know, I was just listening, had it turned up, and then just right in the middle of the conversation, it made this loud goat sound, just meh.

Kai: So this is a great story. So now we're gonna try this real life. We're gonna talk to ChatGPT.

ChatGPT: Hey, Kai. What's on your mind today? Let's dive right in and tackle it together.

Kai: Hey, ChatGPT, can you make a goat sound?

ChatGPT: I can give it a try. Here we go. Meh.

Tim: See?

Kai: I just love that it will do that. So, uh, listeners, do that. It'll make you laugh. Go out there and ask ChatGPT to make animal sounds.

ChatGPT: Honestly, I'm all for a good laugh. All right. So if the occasional goat impression brings a smile, I'm here for it.

Kai: There, all right. Now we're gonna stop ChatGPT.

Narrator: The rundown, five AI stories you need to know right now.

Kai: Let's start with you, small business owner. A new survey out this month asks small business owners about AI, and nearly four in five said that the tools are more useful than they were a year ago, but most said they feel no pressure to rush in. And I thought this was interesting. We talk about this a lot. W- we talk about the idea that, that companies should be, should be diligent and intentional about how they introduce AI, so I, I love the idea that, that this study sort of backs that up. Uh, it does seem like a very obvious thing that y- certainly the tools are more useful than they were a year ago. I don't know who the 20% is that doesn't think that, but, um, they're clearly not using it. But I think, you know, again, this reiterates this idea of, uh, don't chase shiny objects, don't chase squirrels, um, pick your projects with intention Next up, a pair of congressmen, uh, one Republican, one Democrat, put out a draft bill this month that they're calling the Great American AI Act. Uh, the big idea here is one national set of rules for AI instead of every state writing their own. Whether or not this bill actually makes it to the floor or gets any traction is sort of beside the point. Um, I think what it illustrates is that every week we're gonna be talking about new regulations in AI, and they're important for you as a business to understand because, um, what you put on your website, what goes on your email, things like that are, are going to start to be regulated over time, right? And, and I'm starting to see more and more email that has a disclaimer saying, "This was, you know, edited with AI." You're, you're, you're gonna see more responsible AI policies being, um, published on, on company websites. If you're a small business, I highly recommend you look into that. I think that that is, that is inevitable, that is coming. Um, so it's better to get in front of that.

Tim: You know, it's probably only a matter of time before they also try to implement some kind of AI tax on us.

Kai: Like a cigarette tax and a gas tax and

Tim: a- An alcohol tax

Kai: and a...

Tim: Anything that, that we, like, really like using a lot- Yeah,

Kai: yeah ...

Tim: or have to use.

Kai: Well, Bernie Sanders had, um... He's talking a lot about this. It's not a bill or anything, but, but the idea that he thinks that all American citizens should be co-owners of, of AI and, and get payback from it, sort of, right? The number he used was $1,000 a year. Um, this seems like we have a long way to go before we start nationalizing companies- Mm-hmm and, and owning them that way. But I, I mean, this is, this is a, a near constant talk going on. And, and we're not... You know, we're nowhere near being done with this, and it's something that we're just going to have to pay attention to.

Tim: Mm-hmm.

Kai: Next up, Anthropic, the company behind Claude AI, launched its two most powerful models yet on a Tuesday. By Friday, the US government had ordered them switched off, and here's what actually happened. So if, if you remember a while back, Anthropic released Mythos, and Mythos was deemed to be too powerful, uh, to release to the public, and so they released it to a small set of companies in something called Project Glasswing. Mythos was exceptionally good at finding software vulnerabilities, and it was finding, uh, holes in software that we all know and love and use. And so it was thought that if they released it, it would just be a cybersecurity nightmare. So they gave it to all these companies in, really in order for them to patch their own, um, their own software. Last week, Anthropic released it, uh, in a very, uh, governed way, um, called Fable 5, and it was using the Mythos model behind it. But this was our first interaction with the new Mythos, what they call the Mythos class of models. And that came out on Tuesday, Tuesday at 5:00 p.m., I think. Um, and by Friday it was off the shelves. Uh, we, we could, we can no longer access it. So basically, the Commerce Department issued a export control order. Basically, these models couldn't be made available to foreign nationals, and because Anthropic couldn't filter that in real time, they pulled the models for everybody. And so i-it even extended to foreign nationals, AKA people who, who are not US citizens, uh, who are working at Anth-Anthropic. So even Anthropic's own employees were gonna be unable to touch it. And now there's a, there's a big fight going on. Anthropic, again, is, ha-has been sort of on the, on, on the hit list for the DoD. They've been in, in a, a battle with the White House for some time, and there's a lot of analysis on this. But this really does mark the first time that the US government has gotten involved in this and taken away a, a model from folks that had been previously released. And lastly, AI made it up and customers are noticing. This is my favorite, and it sets up, uh, our guest perfectly. One of the biggest consulting firms in the world, KPMG, had to pull a report this month because the report was full of facts that AI just made up, invented citations. Companies named in it said, quote, "That's not us. We never said that," end quote. And separately, a survey came out showing that customers are starting to trust brands less when they lean too hard on AI. That number nearly doubled in, in a year. And I think we're seeing that, um, a lot, right? People are starting to point out, um- Where, where AI wa- was involved. In fact, uh, on a personal level, I had something returned from a client who s- who said, "Too much ChatGPT," and circled stuff. Uh, and the irony is I had written it myself. The double irony is I use em dashes when I write and always have, and I've had to try to train myself to not use em dashes or other pretty common AI grammar. Uh, it turns out I write like AI naturally, and this person had, you know, called it out, and it was a, a weird thing where I felt like if I said that it wasn't AI, it would sound like a lie and defensive. I just had to say, "Sure." "I'll, I'll take the AI." Oh, man. "The, I'll take the AI out of it."

Tim: Um- You should've told him that you use Claude.

Kai: Well, um, so I think, you know, s- a- advice I gave to someone this week, I said, "When you're writing, it can either sound like you or it can sound like corporate speak, but it can't sound like AI." That's it, right? So if you're doing a presentation or what have you, you know, if you, if you wanna go down the corporate speak, people are- people understand that, you know, a lot of circling back and, you know, synergies and whatnot, people get that. Um, if you wanna m- make it you, your own voice, and you're authentic, that's fine. What you can't do is you can't make it AI.

Narrator: The Spotlight, how real businesses are using AI.

Kai: This week, I'm sitting down with Anne Dorman. Anne sells real estate over in Fairhope with Mobile Bay Realty. But she got there in a way I've never heard before. For about 15 years, Anne was a counselor, a child and family therapist, some of the hardest emotional work there is, and when she made the jump to real estate, she realized it was secretly the same job, sitting with someone in a stressful, high-stakes moment and helping them think clearly. As she puts it, it's all about relationships. So today, in an industry AI is changing faster than almost any other, I wanna ask the person who reads people for a living, where does the machine help, and where does the human have to stay in the room? Anne, welcome to the show.

Anne: Thank you, Kai.

Kai: Anne, you've got a career path that we haven't ever had on, on this show before, one, real estate, and two, uh, coming from, from, uh, therapy. Talk a little bit about that. So how, how did you make that transition?

Anne: It was unpredicted- Mm-hmm ... for sure. I enjoyed my career in therapy in South Carolina and in North Carolina, and when I came to Alabama, the mental health system is very different.

Kai: Do we just not need as much therapy down here- I wish ...

Anne: as they need in North Carolina and South Carolina? I wish. So that's the- That would be incredible if there's no need. Um, I think there's a lot that could be done to our system here to help improve it, and after a few years, I was pretty, um, discontent, and I was struggling with burnout and with the day-to-day role I had. And my supportive husband said, "Are we gonna continue down this path? Are you wanting to look at something new and different?" I had never been in sales, had never considered sales, love homes and the real estate market and thought I would try something new. Luckily, in hindsight, it pairs well with my training. So I had a master's degree in counseling and a license, so also supervised other counselors, and honestly, the being okay with uncomfortable situations plays well in real estate.

Kai: What's particularly interesting, of course, this is, you know, a show about AI and how it sort of- changing industries and things like that. Um, we're seeing this big transition, and I think real estate comes up first when you think about sort of, uh, uh, industries that may get disrupted or in sort of transition right now. Is that something that you're seeing from your perspective?

Anne: Yes. As I learn about AI, I think there can be fear with what might it take over. But in reality, because it's a relationship-oriented business and field- Yeah ... I think we don't need to worry as much as we need to embrace. So what I've seen over the last several years is things picking up pace. Yeah. And my goal with AI is to be able to slow down and enjoy the things that I like and pass the other to AI. That

Kai: perspective of using it to slow down and, and maybe maintain a work-life balance or enjoy life in some other way is, is very beneficial for people to hear.

Anne: Precisely. I was spending hours each morning and each evening, and I mean late, with email follow-up. Mm-hmm. If you can as simply as automate emails with AI, then that frees up. Now I can go for a walk with the dogs in the morning- Right ... and I can read a good book in the evening. And I had given those things up for email management.

Kai: What's interesting is when I think about real estate in general, it's like I, I have trouble imagining people wanting to buy houses from a AI or robot or whatever people imagine the future, the scary thing.

Anne: And I hope that continues. I mean, if my future competition is a robot, bring it on. Like, I, I wanna, you know, win against the robot if I'm up for a listing.

Kai: That

Anne: And I'm, I'm up for a challenge. And, but I don't, I'm just not driven from a place of fear.

Kai: Yeah.

Anne: And most of the amazing realtors here in Baldwin County are not driven from fear. Um, having that scarcity mindset is not productive. And so knowing there's plenty of business to go around, what will our competition look like in 10 years? Who knows? But right now, people very much want that individual, personal connection, and I'd be shocked if that changes tremendously.

Kai: So how, how are you using AI right now, or starting to think about using AI?

Anne: Occasionally if, if I have decision fatigue, I can have AI prioritize tasks. That's been very helpful for me. Yeah. And, um, if I do need to reword a difficult conversation that's, you know, if there's lawyers involved in the emails, because that happens. Real estate is not all rainbows and, and sparkles and unicorns. At times there's tension. And so with creative wording of difficult conversations in writing, I'll, I'll use AI in a heartbeat. I'll use it for meal prep for the week- Yeah, yeah ... or meal planning. Yeah. And it says, "Well, since Molly has celiac," And I haven't told it Molly has celiac, but at some point in the past it knew my daughter- It figured that out had the-

Kai: Yeah ...

Anne: the food restriction- Yeah ... that impacts our weekly dinners.

Kai: Yeah, which is very helpful, and it's, it, that's the sort of thing some people get kind of weirded out by, by this. But the reality is, like, i- if you had an executive assistant or if you had a m- personal chef or all of these things, you'd want that person to know all of these things. All the details. So why not? Your, your firm, you're a co-owner of Mobile Bay Realty. How many people are in that firm?

Anne: So we have five owners, and we each wear kind of a different hat. And then we have, I believe, 28 agents right now currently.

Kai: How are your partners in the, the firm at large, uh, thinking about AI?

Anne: We, um, have done some trainings and some, um, deep, some shallow dive. Well, I don't know why I'm saying deep dive. And just, like, inviting you in soon to speak to us. Thank you for agreeing to do that. And I would say we have different levels of who is using the technology, but we're open to it. We're fairly progressive in, in looking at the future in our firm to make sure that we're not caught back on our heels or left, um, in the dirt.

Kai: And I, I should note, um, be- besides your, your real estate adventures, uh, you are also the co-creator of the Fairhope Now Facebook group.

Anne: Yes, you gotta love John Olchu. It's hard to tell him no. This little project we brainstormed, gosh, I don't even know, eight years ago. It- Wow ... it just... Right, time flies. And

Kai: how many subscribers now?

Anne: Gosh, I'd, I'd have to look it up. It's

Kai: gotta be-

Anne: 100,000. ... oh I mean, it is, it is another beast in and of itself. Right. But it has been fun. So John and I started out doing videos on that, and luckily both decided that wasn't our strong suit. I mean- And who is watching and why would they watch? But we can at least update people.

Kai: I'm al- almost certain it's where 90% of, uh, the eastern shore goes for their news, and certainly all of Fairhope, uh, goes. We, you know. Excellent.

Anne: That was

Kai: the goal is- Uh, if, if there's a turtle in the road-

Narrator: Mm-hmm ...

Kai: or a, you know, what kind of snake is this-

Narrator: Yes ...

Kai: w- you're gonna see it on Fairhope Now. On, on that front, is that, uh... On, on the Fairhope Now side, is that stuff that you're using AI to help? I mean, you're, you're an administrator or like a moderator or things like that. Um, are there AI tools that, that help you with that?

Anne: Luckily, we have started recently sorting and pulling newsworthy articles using AI. Of course. So John did set it up, and that just helps streamline the process for us, just pulling relevant local actual news. We still have where the checks and balances in place where we check it before it just posts.

Kai: Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Anne: Because otherwise it

Kai: can- You're, you're still the human in the loop ...

Anne: which is needed. It'll pull random things that are not Fairhope or random things that were actually three weeks ago saying it's today. Yeah. And that's just good for us all to remember. It's gonna pull a wide net, and some of it is junk.

Kai: Yeah. So as a, as a leader in the, in the real estate industry, uh, and a, and someone who's very progressive in that, where do you think the industry is going w- in terms of AI? How, how do you think that the adoption will roll out and, and, and what kind of tools do you imagine are, are coming?

Anne: That's a great question. I probably am too ignorant on the topic to answer well. I do think streamlining and, um, efficiency and systems will be tremendously helpful if we embrace them. And, um, I do... I, I'm disappointed with the little bit of AI use where I read a property description and I can tell AI wrote it because there are 10 other descriptions that rolled out this week just like it. And so I hope that we don't become lazy and pass the tasks off that, um, could impact our clients if, if it's not... Now, photos are gonna win every time, but once again, poorly done virtual staging is also a disservice to our clients. So I think we could get lazy and pass the buck when it comes to our creativity.

Kai: Ever see, um, AI-generated images for any of the listings?

Anne: Yes. I love when I see a creative realtor do a pop-up of a really cool house on an empty lot. Mm-hmm. Like, show me what can be. Oh, interesting. So there's great ways to use- Oh, that's... Yeah, yeah ... AI imagery.

Kai: I never thought about that. Oh, cool.

Anne: Um, even if you make your, your listing video more like a commercial, and that's not you walking through- Sure but it's an AI-generated walkthrough. Mm-hmm. I think there's, uh, there's a lot of opportunity there. That's great. We still have to be very forthcoming. You know, when you walk in, you are gonna see green kitchen cabinets. However, there's all these possibilities. So I think there's gonna be a lot of opportunity. For me, I think making life simpler, streamlining the tasks that I need to get done. Even if I hit a wall, and it's Wednesday, I can go into AI and say, "What are the most productive things for me to do for the next three days to list one more house and write one more contract?" And it'll say, "These are the..." You know, "Get on the phone with these people," or, "Write these people letters," or, "Make a video with this content." And so there's great opportunity there if, if we use it. Oh, one tip if anybody is actually listening this long into the show.

Kai: Oh, they're

Anne: rolling. One trick that I use that realtors should use is when I ask AI to help with a property description, I specifically say, "Use no typical verbiage that you would use in any real estate description."

Kai: Oh, wow.

Anne: Because every time I open a description now, it's nestled in, tucked away.

Kai: Yeah.

Anne: Combination of functionality and comfort. Right. It's these

Kai: same- Well, it- it's been trained on every real estate listing- Mm-hmm ... that's ever been written and taking the top words that it sees.

Anne: Right.

Kai: Is it true that there are words that can't be used in real estate listings?

Anne: Yes, and we can be fined for them. So, um, you know, with fair housing, if I say short walk to the bay, well, not everyone can walk to the bay. So AI can actually write a description using the words we should not use, and you've got to double-check or train it to not- Yeah ... use those words. So short distance to the bay.

Kai: Oh, interesting.

Anne: Or short bike ride/golf ca- cart/ you know, walk to the bay.

Kai: Medium pogo stick to the bay. That's right. That's,

Anne: I like it. That's Pogo stick out to the bay. But if we don't check- Yeah ... which some are back to being lazy, we've gotta or train your AI to not use the words that are red flag.

Kai: That is great. That's, that's a, that's a good ti- I think that, that tip about not using typical words for that particular thing is the tip of the day because I have not heard anyone, um, mention that they do that, and now I'm, now I'm desperate to go do that- ... right away with a whole bunch of things 'cause, you know. One

Anne: of my secrets.

Kai: Yes. I've shared my secret. Yes, it's, it's out. It's out. That's great. Anne, this was wonderful. Thank you so much. Folks, that's Anne Dorman of Mobile Bay Realty in Fairhope.

Narrator: I enjoyed it. Thank you, Kai. The Playbook: one practical way to use AI right away.

Tim: All right, Kai, this is always one of my favorite parts of the show. What are we gonna learn this week?

Kai: All right. Well, this is something that I think some people do, and I certainly do, and I encourage everyone to do it, and that is using AI to do your research before you go out on a meeting. So before I meet with anyone, I use a combination of Perplexity and ChatGPT to do some research on, on whoever I'm meeting. And sometimes I'll be in the car, and I'll use sort of the speech function, but I wanna know a little bit about, about their background, uh, before I walk in cold. And what's great is with all of these systems, they understand my business, they understand m- my history, and they will offer up suggestions on where you can take this conversation, where there are connections to this person that may not have been obvious before. So my advice to everyone is do not go into meetings cold like that. Um, it's so easy to use AI to do a little bit of research And that extends beyond just a Google search because now you have something that can propose ideas. Say, "Hey, oh, you're meeting with this person. What's interesting is, y- you know, in college they ha- they got their bachelor's in, in X degree, and you have an interest in that. That might be a good s- a good starting point." Which is something that I would never have put together in, in a typical meeting where I was, where I was unprepared. So my advice to everyone is to start incorporating AI as a pre-meeting research tool. Well, folks, that is the show. If today's episode was useful, the best thing you can do is share it with one other business owner who needs to hear it. I'm Kai. I'm here with Tim Scott. Thank you for listening, and we'll talk to you next week.

Narrator: For more episodes, practical tools and business insights, visit aiwithkai.com. Follow the show wherever you listen to podcasts and share it with someone building a business on the Gulf Coast